S.2, Ep.4: Rehumanizing Education with Rufus Woods

Lifelong newspaperman Rufus Woods provides a uniquely positive perspective on the pathways to a better educational system. Woods has been passionate about education his entire career and he has seen the good and the bad. Through the mental discipline of appreciative inquiry, Woods  has developed a slate of positive and inspiring ideas on how to improve our current systems. Overarching philosophies like replacing "problem mentalities" with strengths-based approaches and improving our assessment systems combine with concrete concepts such as building better relationships with local media to the benefit of schools and seeking out proven practices, like those identified in CEE's Outliers Study,  that have real impacts on student outcomes and wellness.

Rufus Woods is publisher emeritus of The Wenatchee World, a publication founded by his grandfather, Rufus Woods Sr. He continues to write regular opinion columns on the "Art of Community" which you can find HERE.

You can find the abstract and full version of CEE's Outliers Study HERE.

"Outliers in Education" is a project of CEE, The Center for Educational Effectiveness. Find out more at effectiveness.org.

Produced by Jamie Howell at Howell at the Moon Productions.

Transcript

AD VO: 0:00

outliers in education is brought to you by CEE, the Center for Educational Effectiveness: Better data, Better decisions, Better schools. To find out more visit effectiveness.org.

Eric Price: 0:12

We are lucky to hear from amazing educators all the time on this podcast. But what about all those thoughtful non educators out there with something important that as they say, you can't read the label if you're inside the jar, and today we explore the view from the outside, get ready for another episode of outliers in education.

AD VO: 0:32

I think we really need to change how we look at what we do in schools, everything that we do as educators, it just comes back to people

Unknown: 0:40

I love it even when it's hard, especially when it's hard. Ultimately, I mean, this is about what's best for kids.

Eric Price: 0:47

Hey, everybody, this is Eric price here with my good friend and co host Eric Bowles, ready to go with another episode of outliers in education. And typically on this podcast, you'll hear us enjoying conversation with top educational leaders from around the country, superintendents, principals, etc. But you don't have to be an educator to have valuable insights into how we can make our educational system better. It's a matter of fact, we probably haven't done so for well over a century. So today coming straight out of your hometown of Wenatchee, Washington bosey We have Rufus woods, publisher emeritus of the Wenatchee world and an accomplished journalist who is written frequently and passionately about what's happening in the world of education. Rufus, welcome to the show.

Rufus Woods: 1:28

Great to be here. I'm a big fan of the work you guys are doing big fan of this podcast and, and just excited to be here and talking about about how we make education available to all kids and and do it in a way that meets their needs and meets them where they are. And and so I'm happy to be here.

Erich Bolz: 1:46

We're certainly glad to have you and really got Well, thinking it'd be great to have you on as a guest harkening back to a couple years ago, we talked a little bit about the outlier study. I know you talked with Jean Sherratt, one of the primary authors as well. And it piqued your interest enough to write an op ed, what caused you to write that op ed in 2021?

Rufus Woods: 2:05

Great question, Eric. I really believe that, that, you know, we need to do things differently in DeJay, in education, to to meet the needs for all kids. And and and so I saw this outlier study and what's working as is absolutely essential. And and that really goes to the kind of the spirit of appreciative inquiry, it goes to what what do we build, we're building on strengths, rather than just identifying weaknesses, what's wrong. And I think creating positive constructive journey forward is, is absolutely essential in education. It's also essential in every other aspect of any other organization as well.

Eric Price: 2:52

So, Rufus, when you talk about Appreciative Inquiry, I hear you talk about starting from those strengths. Why do you think that's such an important piece? When we take a look at education?

Rufus Woods: 3:03

Well, if we focus just on the problems, you know, it, it limits our perspective of what's possible. And so but if we look at what are we good at what is, you know, in terms of a child, what does a child good at? What do they care about? What, what lights their fire? If we're reaching them in that personal space? And this is also true for educators? If we're not, if we're going at what are you good at? And how can we build upon that? And yes, we have all we all have weaknesses, we all have things we have to work on. But But if our core focus is on what is what works for you, what what is helpful, what builds upon your strengths, you know, that that really is putting you in a position of, of creating, rather than trying to offset things. If we're only talking about the things that I'm not good at, then then, then that's going to send me a message that that I'm not good enough. And we just can't be giving kids we can't be giving educators, administrators that message

Erich Bolz: 4:12

Well, segwaying into what we're not good at. We've got a 20 plus year track record in, in public education across the country of conforming to high stakes testing. And that has really become in in many respects, kind of our singular focus for school improvement. What are we missing with that? With that approach, Rufus? And what what have we lost?

Rufus Woods: 4:34

I think it's, it's terribly inappropriate to take one measurement and say, this is this is a proxy for for the quality of education. And, and instead of that we need to be looking at at where are the kids and where can we help them grow? How can we create a positive context? Round which they can see themselves in their journey as a lead person in that journey, and then take it forward, that speaks to teaching and, and as an hour, as an art of, of meeting that kid where he is, where he or she is, and then, and then helping them, you know, see what's see what they've got this good, and that's, that's constructive. And that's what those skills and talents are. And then and then leveraging that to help them you know, meet the challenges and face things that are not as easy for them so that you give them that if you start from a, again, from a weakness base or a problem based focus, you're really given the wrong message, we want kids to be encouraged the best teachers I know, a really close friend is a is a third grade, just to retire third grade teacher and she, she spent so much time in her class, on the comments with those kids that were struggling, because she saw that she didn't want to get the message that you can't do it. And so she spent an inordinate amount of time just, you know, finding what's finding their, their, their towns, what they're good at what they're what they're accomplishing that to give them momentum, because it's that momentum, it gives them the the courage, the strength and the capability to move forward. Unless rather than saying, Here are all the things you are not doing well, that's just, I don't like that feedback. I get I get it sometimes. But you know, I don't know if that's all I'm getting, you know, it's not helpful,

Eric Price: 6:43

Rufus, I'm gonna, I'm gonna hunt up that tree, a little bit about that teacher and talking to those kids in a in a human perspective. But I'm really I'm really curious about your perspective, both both you and I have been swimming in the educational pool for the majority of our careers. looking from the outside, when you take a look at some of these high stakes, maybe singular item assessments that we're looking at, when you take a look at maybe looking at that human part of education. Why do you think that that is so important, as government gets involved with education, and you see government get involved with other pieces? Why is that humanization such a big part?

Rufus Woods: 7:29

I think, if we look at things as a, as a mechanical system of input, teaching, least output, you know, growth, it's, it's, you know, it's that's not that's not the journey of a student, and that I'm aware of, it's it's a more complicated, circuitous journey along the educational system. And so if we rely only upon test scores, and in popular culture that make the legislature does this, I think, to have parents do this focus when schools are failing, get your scores up?

Eric Price: 8:06

And do you think it might be that's an easy thing for them to grab on to get a handle on?

Rufus Woods: 8:09

I think, I think it's because it is, is, if you can measure it, and and so it's easy and is, and you can, and you could do it across, you know, all districts, so it creates a momentum, it creates its own weather system, if you were a mountain, it creates its own weather system. So that the be all and end all is that and, and, and so so we we've we've gotten so pattern into thinking that that's what's important, we're missing what are we trying to create here with? Why are we doing education in the first place? If we're looking at just a test score, or a series of test scores, that's, that's that isn't it? And we're missing? What makes the human beings in the system, both teachers and, and, and ParaPRO. Parents, as well as, as well as students, you know, we're leaving the human factor out of it. And we have to, I like to think of a we humanizing education and in this society,

Eric Price: 9:11

and you realize, I'm just going to follow up with one other question, if, from again, from somebody outside of our pool, if you're going to say, hey, here's the point of education, what would you say, as a citizen,

Rufus Woods: 9:24

I want to, for education, I want kids to come out of the system, with with confidence, I want to, I want them to be aware of their strengths and their and the things that they don't do well, but there be I want them to be in a strengths based position. I want them to be kind and compassionate towards those around them to learn to work together. To to come out as human beings who can evolve, adapt, not just to answer test scores, but that's I want them to be the whole the whole student.

Eric Price: 9:57

Yeah. Hard, hard to assess those pieces right.

Rufus Woods: 10:00

And that difficulty obsessing is with why we haven't done it. The Outlier study does point us in the right direction. It's more complex than just one number. But yeah, and we have to train ourselves not to just take the number and go, Oh, that's, that's quality. It's not

Erich Bolz: 10:18

what you really stole a little bit of my thunder there, because I was really thinking, how do we how do we tie what that more perfect assessment system might look like to those 11 common conditions and 12 characteristics inside of the outlier study? And, and I think really redesigning it with the end in mind, like you said, you know, we want confident, kind, compassionate kids who learn to work together, maybe not as measured as the as currently ought to be, but certainly goes a long way into RE humanizing education. So as somebody who's been able to have a really unique kind of view into public education in your role as a newspaper man, all these years, if you were king for the day, how would you start that process of re humanizing education? What might those key steps be?

Rufus Woods: 10:59

Well, I think, I think we've got a great step with the CEE and the work you're doing. Because we now know, if we want to freshen all the kids learning, we now know what what it takes to do that the culture building a culture of a school, and, and elevating leaders rather than managers. Is, is the is the way you do that. And then how do we come together? Whether it's PLCs? You know, how do we come together to collectively meet the needs of all the kids in our school and meet, treat them as much as possible in a, you know, in a way they are, you know, meet them where they are as the basis of Act? So I think that I think that is, and so that that nuance of, of all kids are different kids, your kids, they're all there, they all have skills, they all have talents, they're all valuable. So how do we make sure that we're not just going to one one level, and that's what our system has done? So so what we need to do is, is to open that question up and say, well, and find the things we can measure that that will lead us to, to a more whole view of that child and that child's journey, and the system is turning eight so that we can look at where that success is, and we have a better view than just one number or or a few numbers.

Eric Price: 12:26

Smokes Rufus, you should be a spokesman for the outlier study. And we would also like you to talk to our legislature if that's at all possible. I mean, amazing things that you're articulating here. And we've got lots more to talk about with today's guest, Rufus woods. Stick around, we'll be right back with more outliers in education.

AD VO: 12:49

School districts across the country are turning their focus to social emotional learning like never before. But who is the time now you do thanks to the whole educator series and online SEL training that you take at your own pace six modules packed with proven strategies that will make a difference right away.

Unknown: 13:07

The training was awesome. The content was amazing. This workshop is going to make you a better educator

AD VO: 13:13

taught by SEL expert, Dr. Greg Benner, the whole educator series delivers strategies to ease the stress on you while bringing out the best in your students. These

Unknown: 13:22

strategies they work you'll be amazed at the results not only with the youth you serve, but also in your own life. He's telling us strategies that we can implement tomorrow. Absolutely, homerun

AD VO: 13:34

professional development at the speed of life. Check out the whole educator series online SEL training available now from CEE at effectiveness.org/workshops. That's effectiveness.org/workshops Welcome back, everyone.

Eric Price: 13:52

Today we're talking with lifelong newspaperman and publisher emeritus of the Wenatchee world, Rufus woods. I'm going to shift gears a little bit Rufus and move into your experience with the North Central Education Foundation in their granting process. I know you've been involved in some of that, what makes that that process different than other processes you might have been involved with?

Rufus Woods: 14:13

It's a beautiful little program. It is part of the North Central educational service district. The foundation is their philanthropic arm, and we raise about 30 $40,000 a year to give out in $300 grants for teachers and we we asked them to, to write a one page really simple. A one page application that says it talks about hands on learning and what they want to do, whether it's in music and arts, whether it's in financial education, whether it's in literacy, STEM and STEAM, all these categories and so and then we award those grants each year and what's what's extraordinary about that process is we try to Keep the schools where the schools are out of it. So we give the money directly to the to the teachers. And I'll tell you why when we get together, well, pretty COVID, when we would get together, and, and those those parents, those teachers would come in, and here's your project, Here's your check, here's a $300 check. And tell us how you did. At the end of that, I'll tell you what you think those those teachers who had won the lottery, gotten the Nobel Peace Prize, the energy of the room, you know, and that's the thing, you know, the thing that we've, we've done to teachers in the system currently, you know, not trusting them to do what they're doing, but to sort of assume that they're going to make the wrong decision. And so we have to have some way of telling them what they're doing wrong. I mean, it's just not helpful. What I've learned is you give trust, you just assume that they're going to do a great job. And then you, you just try to stay the heck out of the way, and let them, let them create. And every year, we get these dozens upon dozens of these, over, here's what within the classroom with this music and arts grant. And, you know, we did these things, and in pictures of the kids, and you could just see that the energy, the passion, it's just, it just was a exciting thing for these teachers and something they they, they love. And we and teachers got into this because they love to teach, and they care about kids. And so what are we doing that to help them and this simple little program $300 grant may seem like a little thing, but it just says volumes about how we how we value them as human beings.

Erich Bolz: 16:41

So first, I want to come back to something you said a little bit earlier, you talked about at the leadership level, making sure that we promote leaders versus managers. What would what would that look like? What what what what do you see as the characteristics of a solid educational leader,

Rufus Woods: 16:57

I think educational leader has to lead with the first bit from a perspective of trust, which you guys talk a lot about trust, you've got to create a team around you, a collaborative team, we're all in it for all the kids, and then how can we work together to make that thing that happen? And, and to be able to, to resist the you know, the influence, it's a common that say, teach it to the test, you know, get scores up, teach faster. I mean, I've heard this from educators, I know you gotta teach faster, we got to get those scores. That's the, if you don't have trust with you don't connect with those kids, if they don't feel safe, you know, for the some of these high poverty, high diversity areas, it ain't going to happen. And so can we can we least acknowledge that let's, let's let's play that strength, and let's not undercut that. And so though, I think that's critically important,

Eric Price: 17:59

kind of kind of moving at the speed of trust, Rufus?

Rufus Woods: 18:02

Amen. I think everything moves there. And so leaders are going to say, I'm going to take the heat from up above, and then there rather than transmitting it, they're going to, they're going to they're going to protect their staff, and they're going to what's the right thing for our kids? Right, and defend that to the death? And, and sometimes, you know, and, and, and not everything can be assessed in a measurement. And so where are those kids? And are we what other indicators? Or what other qualitative things? Are we seeing those kids? Where are we seeing those successes? And and it's like in my friend, the teacher, who's that, that Karen, with with those comments, where you really want to build the kid up, not not sugarcoat it, but build up their strengths. And give them some positive encouragement, because we need them to keep working. And we need them to keep striving and just keep striving and we need to be there with them every step of

Eric Price: 19:02

the way. Rufus media sometimes is not our friend, as educational leaders, like we get some black guys and beat around a bit. So in your own experience in media, a how can we use that to be a more friendly thing for us in education, and then maybe reflect on some of your own thinking and processing in media and why you think about education so much in your use of media?

Rufus Woods: 19:28

Yeah, I think we have the same issue immediately. You do an education problem mentality. You know, the plane lands at pink born an airport in East Wenatchee. It's not news, if it crashes, it is. Right. So so it's not a helpful attitude, I think local media and accepting the national folks but the local media, you know, people do care, they do love and they do want to help their communities I've been I just have not been in many organizations where that will wasn't biting, you know, passion for how do we help our communities? And so I think we can do a better job in the media of, of highlighting what is working again. And I mean, the work that your your your SIR are saying, you know, interviews with, with Tamra up at Bridgeport and so many other schools of how they're achieving so much we need to highlight those intermediates and talk about what are those things that are helpful? If we're just talking about what doesn't work, it's not helpful at all, and, and shame on us, we need to be stepping up and leading a sense of what what's possible for our kids? And how can we help rather than sit back and take, you know, and criticize when the test scores come out? Or, or find something wrong, as you know, things happen. Right. And that's, that's life, but, but we have to support the system, we have to support the teachers and the administrators, and we have to encourage them to do the right thing. You know, and I think, I think the the see study, the outlier study is a leverage point that we can use to have a deeper conversation communities, and we have to start not expecting Olympia to solve it. I don't think they will. They haven't yet

Eric Price: 21:18

why it's gonna come on.

Rufus Woods: 21:24

It's not going to happen there. It's not going to happen from from fifth to national, in our local communities, how do we activate our local communities to build upon to have a real good understanding about what's happening? And how do we how do we leverage local assets to meet those kids where they are, and it can't be just the schools doing that, it's got to be the community and, and that's the, to me, that's the next wave of this, if we're gonna make a difference, we're gonna have to do it together,

Eric Price: 21:53

almost that loop of appreciative inquiry, that we're both looking in focusing on strengths, maybe

Rufus Woods: 21:58

strengths based and what's possible. Okay, here's we are, rather than let's find someone to blame newspapers, and immediately do that well. But instead of that, let's go. Okay, so what what are we going to do with this? And how do we move forward? And, and the outlier study is that is the key to how you can take in organizations in our schools in difficult situations and making massive progress. And, and so it can't be that it will be done differently in every school, whether you're rural, urban, whatever, it'll be done differently. And that's fine. And that flexibility that that getting out of the one size fits all but but the ethos of how do we how do we reach all the kids and and how do we elevate teachers, rather than micromanage them and how we kind of build that collaboration so that we're working together as a team, we're bringing the community to get in on it, and we're making things happen. And we're and we're just not succumbing to, you know, that Well, nothing's, you know, the system is bad, we were the system, we need to we need to

Erich Bolz: 23:06

work with it. And related to it, I was kind of thinking of this from the opposite angle. So I think he did a really nice job of outlining media and kind of the, you know, the the problem with chasing problems and what media can do better, but you've had to have some epiphanies and over your time to around, you know, what are we missing as educational leaders in terms of how we could better relate or connect with the media, like, you must have these thoughts of, oh, boy, these guys and gals just don't see the forest for the trees? What could what could we do better? On our side of that partnership?

Rufus Woods: 23:34

I think I think building relationships is is with with your local, local media is important. And, you know, here's what we're trying to accomplish. And I think, I think all for a lot of years has always seemed like, you know, public, you know, kind of you stand back we haven't That's right. So there's a reengagement that needs to happen conversation around, what can what can we do together? And how can we how can we really meet the needs of all of our kids? So I think that's, that's really essential. I think reaching out building relationships and highlighting the kinds of successes that are out there and they're everywhere, telling stories of success, is the most important thing is what I came back from my trading and appreciative inquiry is like, I need to change the way I do business I can, I want I want to be a positive force for change. I want us to be here for the community to succeed. That's, that's, I don't care. Sometimes that means, you know, yelling and screaming, but most of the time, it's about this is awesome. Look at what these people are doing. And you find that in every classroom, you find that in every school, you've got amazing people doing doing incredible things, and they they're making a difference and we need to celebrate that. And and you do that by surfacing those stories and creating opportunities for media outlets to Tell that story, right? Well, here's how you might be interested in that story. Here's a teacher, here's what they've done. And here's some of the results. And I don't think that's pandering. I think that's, that's just, you know, setting a positive tone or meeting with your local newspaper publisher or, you know, weekly publisher, or radio station and just let's, let's just have an ongoing conversation about what we're doing and as highlights and things that show what we are doing and what our what our kids are doing. Because otherwise things gravitate towards what went wrong at a football game or at a at a school situation. And it's not, it's not helpful, we need to we need to tell a more balanced story all the way around.

Eric Price: 25:42

Ruth, as you you, you insinuated something about training, what what is the training in appreciative inquiry?

Rufus Woods: 25:48

Yes, this was developed at Carnegie Mellon University and a whole mindset around about what is possible, what can we do where we are, with what we've got, basically, and it's a it's a mental discipline of, of not seeing, if you're, something's a problem, we have developmentally disabled or intellectually challenged kids. But what's the opportunity here? And, and, and in every situation, we can take it as, oh, no, one more problem. Or we can say, Okay, what, how can we think about this differently? What possibilities is this create, and and whether in business, in your personal life, it's a resilience strategy, and it's about it's about not taking the low road of, oh, boy, here's another bad thing that happened. And we have to help our students, we have to help our teachers, we have to help our administrators, we have to help our community see things in terms of what what can we do, because things are going to change? And there are going to be some difficult challenges, but we have to take those and go okay, now what what can we do? And and so that pot that that mentality is the discipline more than anything else. And that's one things that you guys are building through the outlier study in your outreach. You're seeing this play out in school, if we're not taking the fact that we've got a high poverty, high diversity class or school, and we're just going to give up we're going to take that as okay. Okay, so what can we do with this? Let's see what we could do. And that that's what we need.

Eric Price: 27:27

Ruth is talking about building on strengths. Our co host ballsy is fantastic at the wrap up, and this is that time of the show. ballsy. What do you got for us?

Erich Bolz: 27:37

Well, I appreciate the crash course on the discipline of appreciative inquiry. I think that was a great theme to weave all the way through and love the connection into one's personal life. In addition to how you know that approach might impact synergy across institutions, for sure. Love just the idea of starting with what's working is that essential question? All of us are in huge agreement that high stakes testing can't be that singular proxy measure for educational success. What what makes a good citizen is far more complex than than the ability to narrowly demonstrate reading comprehension or being able to do math for sure. I felt like Rufus must have listened to a handful of our podcasts because I do like connection to a whole bunch of them. Yeah. And when I think about data, we're really looking at demographic data, perceptual data, ultimately, then tweaking our schools context, to minister to the needs of folks inside of the schoolhouse. That's what leads to achievement and that really resonates across episode 10 with Chuck saline and Suzanne Gertz for sure. And what we want is we want confident, kind, compassionate kids who who can learn how to work together sounds an awful lot like 21st century skills and what we all agree we want as employers as well, yeah, love the shout out to see periodically we absolutely can measure building culture in a school. And Rufus really hit on teachers working together, trust is the bedrock and two of the podcasts. I think that really illuminate those contexts are Episode Five, an oldie but a goodie. We haven't really stem for a while and collective teacher efficacy with Heather Fowler. And then of course, Janelle Keatings masterclass on how to operationalize PLCs and episodes 14 Trust being that absolute imperative and that we have to gift trust. Rufus said give trust I changed it to give trust because it is a gift and do everything that we can to foster teachers love of teaching that we've we've really, we've really lost track that teaching is primarily an art first and a science. Second, I think leading with trust and having leaders who lead with trust. Craig Randall had an awful lot to say about that in Episode 17, which is a must listen to for educational leaders who are currently hamstrung by our T pet processes in Washington state and our wider supervision processes across the country that much like high stakes tests. Sooner trying to put folks in a box that they shouldn't even be asked to fit into my opinion, love the idea that media can absolutely highlight what's working and what can make a difference. Rufus hit on something that I believe for a long time that change comes at the grassroots level. In the United States, we're a little bit conditioned to want to genuflect to the Savior process. We're just waiting for the next Jesus or Abraham Lincoln to solve all of our problems. And the reality is, it's kind of for old guys like us that at the grassroots level can make a huge difference. And I will have believed for a long time, if I if I had the energy or desire to get a doctorate, I would want to study how elementary schools and that and the elementary neighborhood that they serve is probably the last frontier in terms of meaningful unit of change in in the United States. And I think Rufus really got at that as well was just great to talk to a kindred spirit, who sees, you know, life through the lens of trying to be a positive force for change. We're trying to do that exact same thing. And then finally giving a shout out to our friend Darren peppered in Episode 20, who talks about changing the world one conversation at a time, we hope that we played some small role in doing that today. And Rufus, we so appreciate your insight, one of my favorite quotes I'm playing around with recently as you can't read the label from the inside of a jar. So it's pretty nice to have people from outside of the jar of education Come on, and really validate some of this practice.

Eric Price: 31:22

I think that we're gonna we're gonna give you an honorary doctorate, in summarization, at least ballsy. So nice job, Rufus. From your perspective, did we hit those things? Do we miss anything? Anything you want to add there?

Rufus Woods: 31:35

I think so. I mean, the relational piece of this is just absolutely essential. And, and the data is important. It's data is important, but we have to be very careful with it. There's so much potential there. And we need teachers that are feeling motivated and encouraged and evolving. So I'm, I'm excited about what can be done now. I'm excited about what is being started here and and to follow along, Rufus,

Eric Price: 32:05

you hit on so many of the major points and kind of bedrock research that we have looked at. So thank you for being on the show. It was amazing to hear all those things kind of all together in one chunk. Well, I

Erich Bolz: 32:21

thank you for listening to another episode of outliers in education. You can listen to this podcast wherever you get your podcast or@effectiveness.org.

AD VO: 32:34

If you'd like to find out how to gather the data you need to help drive positive change in your school or district. Take a moment to visit C E. The Center for Educational effectiveness@effectiveness.org Better data, better decisions, better schools effectiveness.org