Outliers in Education from CEE

Courageous Principals Needed with Andre Wicks

• Andre Wicks • Season 3 • Episode 1

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Andre Wicks is the creative force behind EverydayPrincipal.com, an online platform designed to connect educators and administrators with the latest research, knowledge and best practices in the field of K-12 education. A seasoned principal himself, Andre knows what his colleagues are up against on a daily basis and offers inspiring and practical insights into nurturing relationships, sustaining a vibrant school culture, and striking that ever-elusive work-life balance. Above all, courageous principals who can stand strong in support of what's best for students are what's needed most.

Check out Andre's website and latest book at:


"Outliers in Education" is a project of CEE, The Center for Educational Effectiveness. Find out more at effectiveness.org.

Produced by Jamie Howell at Howell at the Moon Productions.

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Outliers in Education is brought to you by CEE, the Center for Educational Effectiveness. Better data, better decisions, better schools. To find out more, visit effectivenessorg.

Eric Price:

Welcome to 2024, everyone. I'm your co-host, eric Price, and I'm Eric Boles, and we're here to ring in the new year with a brand new episode of Outliers in Education from CEE, the Center for Educational Effectiveness.

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I think we really need to change how we look at what we do in schools, everything that we do as educators. It just comes back to people. I love it, even when it's hard, especially when it's hard. Ultimately, I mean, this is about what's best for kids.

Eric Price:

Can you believe that 2023 is already history? That means we've been at this podcast thing for three years now. That's incredible. I've been thinking about my New Year's resolution for podcasting and I think really Boles this year. I really want to listen to our producer when he tells me stuff.

Erich Bolz:

I think that should be perfect, because I don't plan on ever listening to the producer, so we should cancel each other out and just maintain that mediocre status quo that has been the co-host's voice for Outliers in Education.

Eric Price:

I think that would just be perfect. Hey, we're all trying to get better in some way, especially this time of the year, but of course that's our mission all year long here at Outliers in Education To uncover and share the strategies, research and best practices that help educators reach beyond the status quo for their kids the things that truly make Outliers Outliers. We've had the good fortune to speak with some of the smartest, most innovative and caring educators I've encountered over these past three years, and today it's no different. Everydayprincipalcom is an online platform that shares many of the same goals we have here at Outliers in Education spreading the word and tools that educators need to learn, grow and improve. Andre Wicks is the chief editor for EverydayPrincipalcom. He is also an author, a consultant and a principal himself with the Spokane Public Schools. Andre, welcome to the show.

Andre Wicks:

Thank you for that kind introduction. Caring, smartest and most innovative those are my New Year's resolutions.

Eric Price:

Well, that's good. Somebody needs to hit that ball. You've come to the right place. I think Bulls and I had three strikes on that one. Hey, if you were going to give me an elevator pitch for EverydayPrincipalcom, what would you say? That it is and that it stands for.

Andre Wicks:

The heart and the inspiration of the blog really is to inform, influence and inspire. That's kind of our tagline. I have to make things simple for myself. So the elevator speech, the mantra, the tagline, the mission, the vision, all have to be kind of tied together. And so when I think about the conception of EverydayPrincipal, that's really what it boils down to. You is just networking, crowdsourcing, really trying to take advantage of the collective experience of all the leaders we have across the country and the globe.

Erich Bolz:

Well, that's fantastic, and we know, because EP and I are in the field of fair amount we're both actually recovering public educators ourselves. As a current principal, you're likely overloaded with the demands of the job, so what caused you to say, gosh, am I spare time? I'm going to take on one more thing, just the additional work of maintaining this dynamic website with all these great authors, everydayprincipalcom, and what motivates you to keep it going?

Andre Wicks:

Yeah, I don't know. I think that for me, I've always had a leadership spirit about me. I think I've always had kind of an entrepreneurial spirit about me as well, and over the course of the 28 years that I've spent in K-12, ed, I've had the opportunity to just do and try a lot of different things. A lot of the people that inspire me are always talking about the continuous development of leadership. It's not like you go to this training or you read this book or you visit this website and you have accumulated all of the acumen that you're going to need to be the best leader that you can possibly be. It's really this ongoing pursuit of continuous improvement.

Andre Wicks:

For me, that comes by way of listening and watching and observing, but then also like doing, you know, trying some of these things, and so the, the everyday principle, honestly, has been a vision of mine for a couple years, and it just got to a point, quite literally, that I just said I have to like stop, stop talking about it, I just have to do it. So, so that's what I did over spring break last year. I kind of I drafted out my, my business plan and sketched out my first year, that of the things that I would like to try to accomplish with everyday principle and and set my my launch date for early July and it happened. So I guess that's how it works. Sometimes you just have to put things in motion and throw stuff out on the table and see.

Eric Price:

See how it happens, see how it looks imagine that if we could stop talking and do stuff in K-12, wouldn't that be? Wouldn't that be awesome? When you take a look at what you experience on everyday principlecom and in your position you have a story that kind of amplifies some of the needs that you kind of are seeing consistently in that principle position yeah, yeah, I think that reoccurringly.

Andre Wicks:

Just you know folks that are looking for tips, tricks, strategies in for leadership in general and you know the the world is the oyster is your oyster when it comes to. When it comes to that, there's all sorts of things. So we have some of our authors have written on building strong relationships with students, really focusing on culture. One of our authors has really emphasized a healthy work-life balance. Most recently we've had myself and a couple other authors have written about commitments that it will take to you improve student learning in the long term, not just getting quick results to pad stats or to make your data look better. What internal commitments, what systems, what frameworks do you need to have in place? What mindsets do you need to have in place to make those systems and frameworks work so that you can increase student learning? So looking at PLCs professional learning communities is another thing that we're really working hard on at Pepperzac Middle School. We're on the principle. We're looking at things like equitable grading practices.

Andre Wicks:

What does it really look like? What does it really mean when a student earns an ABCD? What does it mean when a student is failing? Rick DeFour was the one that said the things that get monitored, get done. That is the truth. It was so many things that you could be focusing on or attending to. You have to be thoughtful and you have to prioritize. What are the foundational building blocks of a healthy, thriving, productive school? Those are some of the things that we're working on as well.

Eric Price:

Well, it's not every day that we get to have a principle of this caliber on the show. Get it Every day principle right there. See that, Stay with us and we'll be right back with more from Andre Wick right here on Outliers in Education.

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Erich Bolz:

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Eric Price:

Hey everybody, thanks for sticking around. We're kicking off the new year with principal Andre Wick, editor-in-chief of the online platform EverydayPrincipalcom.

Erich Bolz:

So, Andre, tell me a little bit about I opened two schools in my career. So tell us this one story, if not more, that people just wouldn't believe about what it's like to open a school.

Andre Wicks:

In my 28 years this has been the most exciting, the most rewarding experience I've ever had. Some of the things with opening a school though it's, like you know, from an outsider looking in, I think you just kind of assume that everything is awesome and not everything is awesome. So when we were first moving in, this was unbelievable. We had a staff retreat planned the few days before school started and so we started the morning, the half day, and then we came up to the school to work so that teachers could move in and stuff. And on the second day of our retreat, when we left the retreat and came up to the school, we walked in to 88 pallets of curriculum, pe equipment, uniforms, I mean you name it seriously all of our office supplies. I mean literally we're three and a half months in and we're still unpacking, we're still getting stuff, yeah. So lots of unpacking, lots of weekend time.

Eric Price:

So, andre, there's probably a lot of principles out there listening, and so what advice would you give to someone that's coming in and sitting in your chair, I think?

Andre Wicks:

Pace. Uh, you know not being too much in a hurry to prove anything. The transition into a brand new middle school is. It's emotional, you know it's taxing both physically, mentally and emotionally. And if you're trying to do too much too fast without you know really taking that into consideration, the excitement of opening a new building quickly turns to fatigue, resentment. You know people wishing maybe they hadn't made the choice that they made.

Eric Price:

Why do you think that our propensity as leaders is to try to go faster?

Andre Wicks:

Why do you think that I think it's just the hustle and bustle of life. I think that innately there are outside pressures. I mean there's always noise, right, If you choose to listen to all the noise, if you choose to listen to all of the wants and needs and asks and complaints, it creates that pressure. So I think that you just have to have, you have to have spent some time ahead of time planning for your pace, what you're going to tolerate and what you're not.

Erich Bolz:

Andre, what would you tell a colleague? Why should they get on, check out your site and consume content on the everyday principle?

Andre Wicks:

For me, the value that I was really striving for with the literature we provide on everyday principle is that it's current, it's relevant, it's like what's literally happening right now, and so that's why I really wanted to seek principles and leaders that are in the field in the moment right, and so I know that that's a big sacrifice to ask principles, assistant principles, superintendents that have been principles, people that work with principles to take the time while they're serving in the role. I think that's the added value that everyday principle brings is that these are people that are telling their own stories.

Erich Bolz:

So, in that regard, whether it's feedback from folks who are consuming the everyday principle or your principal colleagues where you work in District 81 in Spokane, washington, what do you think are the big themes that cause your peers to wake up at three in the morning?

Andre Wicks:

Maybe it's just like the moral imperative my middle school is. I think we have one of the lowest free and reduced lunch rates in the district, but we're still between 35 and 40 percent. But there are students that just are experiencing and living in complex trauma. It's hard not to take your work personal when you're in the field of education because you're in the people business. For me, some of the things that wake me up in the middle of the night are just what, what kids need that they're not getting.

Eric Price:

And Andre, if you're going to equip, if you were in charge of the principal equipment room and you're going to say, hey, here's what, here's what we really need out there, what would you say? Boy, we really need this in the principal ship right now, with some structures, tools, thoughts.

Andre Wicks:

Oh, you know what? I think that's one of the things that we need, and this isn't to assume that it's not there or not deep down somewhere, but we need courageous principles. When you're in big systems, small systems really it doesn't matter. We talked to just a few moments ago about the pressures of being a principal, and if you let that get to you, it can really cause you to second guess, can cause you to just not be courageous, and I think that we need that. You know I kind of joke that K12 education is notorious for tolerating unprofessionalism and, just you know, making making choices and doing things that aren't necessarily in the best interest of kids, and we need courageous leaders to stand up and say that's, that's not okay. You know, we're not going to tolerate that piggybacking on that theme of courageous principles.

Erich Bolz:

What does that look like, especially in a larger system, not asking you to out your own system. So you know, could be Kennewick, could be Richland, could be Pasco, could be, could be any system anywhere in the United States over 10,000 students, where you've got multiple principles pushing back on the system in a courageous way as a principal and still maintaining your ability to keep your job and garner your paycheck. What does that look like? How does that? How does a courageous principal walk that line?

Andre Wicks:

I can speak for myself only and honestly would say that I have not always been as courageous as I could be. I think that you know, with experience and time, and just really becoming aware of who I am as a leader, being confident in who I am as a leader, has allowed me to be more courageous. I think being a great listener, a great observer, allows you to gain the perspective of lots of stakeholders and constituents. I think that what that does is allows you to be confident in making informed decisions, being intentional about building relationships with you know, your school directors, building relationships with your superintendent, building really, really great relationships with your staff, students and families. You know, when you have a strong school community, I think that that really helps to build a strong foundation of courageous leadership that you can push back on things that aren't serving students' best interest.

Eric Price:

That's what I think really wise, andre. I think one of the things that is very difficult, or we need courage to, is to listen, ask questions and to listen to. You know our constituents. So, speaking of listening more. It is the new year coming up. Do you have any resolutions, either for yourself on everydayprinciplecom or for yourself as a principal? What's happening this coming year, andre?

Andre Wicks:

Well, for Pepperzac Middle School, we opened with just six and seventh grade, so next year we'll be adding another class of students, I'll be adding another eight to ten staff, and so one of the things that we really committed to, that we've been able to maintain thus far, is a culture of feedback. We really believe that no system or team can maximize their potential without feedback, and so, for us, the system, the culture of feedback allows us to kind of test ourselves, and so, looking ahead to next year, we wanna continue to test our theories and our practices.

Eric Price:

Andre, this is the time of the show that we bring in Dr Bowles and his amazing summarization skills. Bowles, take it away my man.

Erich Bolz:

Well, I just wanna say thank you for the academic promotion number one. Apparently, now that you're working at the university level, ep, you have the ability to convey honorary doctorates. It is an honorarium and I would say it's about time. Yeah, exactly, so, really, starting from the top, hard to argue with the mission of the everyday principle, which is to inform, influence and inspire. Impress that. Andre is one of those unique individuals who stopped talking about it and just decided to do it, but he started with a plan. Imagine what would happen if we all started with a well-written business plan. I don't know that we'd all be this successful, but inside of about six months he's amassed a readership of 50,000 readers.

Erich Bolz:

The goal of the everyday principle again, is that super noble, informed, influenced, inspire, really leading towards the kind of connection I made was collective principle efficacy. So we can learn a lot from each other. We know that one of the biggest impacts we can have is fostering a climate and buildings that leads to great teacher collective efficacy. But maybe our best bet to do this in the isolated position that's the principle is to reach out and learn from each other. The link I really made to the Outlier Study, especially given the mission of everyday principle is lifelong learning. One of our common characteristics that we saw across these incredible schools in Washington state was folks who really committed to lifelong learning and loved what Andre said about pace.

Erich Bolz:

I think anything that we can do to just slow things down at this point is better for everybody. We're all overloaded. Our culture lends itself to that. We hear over and over again that educators are frazzled. So that calm leadership, I think, is critically important and never more important than at a new school. Haven't done that thing twice. People really do hit a wall about this time of year because it's an incredible amount of energy to open a brand new institution on everyone's behalf.

Erich Bolz:

What keeps Andre up? Kids in trauma? That might sound familiar. We've had an awful lot of guests on Outliers in Education really speaking towards where kids are at contemporary in mental health and with trauma. You might want to check out what Jim Spore later and Dr Corey Callahar, superintendent of Wenatchee School District, have to say about trauma-informed practice in earlier episodes of Outliers in Education.

Erich Bolz:

Good principles are great listeners. They take feedback from all constituents and hey, that's what we do at CEE. We really help measure where constituents are at and their perceptions around school. So Andre's management by walking around practices David Packard would be proud of Andre today for mentioning that approach is something that's real congruent with the work that we do. And then I think the piece that comes through is having the courage to take the time to build great relationships. We know that schools are all about the relationships. Our most effective schools have incredibly strong cultures, by the way. We can help you measure and building those courageous relationships takes vulnerability, and we hear this from many of our great guests. So, in summary, I'd like to thank Andre so much for what he shared and really do agree it's all about the relationships, and the ability for Andre to use his platform to inform, influence and inspire Makes him an absolutely outstanding guest here on Outliers in Education.

Eric Price:

Andre, it sounds like you need some more things to do. Juggle some more balls. Apparently, you wrote a book in 21. What is standing in the way the journey of becoming your best self? Is that a book for educators?

Andre Wicks:

Absolutely. That was another book actually inspired by other educators. I was actually giving a keynote to educators and essentially it's just kind of going back to that idea of stop talking and just doing. What's standing in the way is a book about getting out of your own way to enjoy the things that you've always wanted in life.

Eric Price:

And where can they find that book, Andre?

Andre Wicks:

On.

Eric Price:

Amazon, all right, and you can check out other blogs and resources available at everydayprinciplecom. Andre, it's been a pleasure. Thanks for being on the show, my friend. Thank you, it's been my pleasure.

Erich Bolz:

And happy New Year to all of you who are listening in today. You can find us anywhere you listen to your favorite podcast or visit us online at effectivenessorg. Until next time. This has been Outliers in Education, and that's a wrap music playing].

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If you'd like to find out how to gather the data you need to help drive positive change in your school or district, take a moment to visit CEE, the Center for Educational Effectiveness, at effectivenessorg. Better data, better decisions, better schools Effectivenessorg.

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Eric Price

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Erich Bolz

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